V神发话以太坊要收费,网友回复:独裁币!

0x5  2018-03-28  以太坊/以太坊(Ethereum)栏目  

V神发话以太坊要收费,网友回复:独裁币!

  本文综合翻译自 Vitalik Buterin 社区文章与 CoinDesk 网站文章,文章指出 Vitalik Buterin 从以太坊网络长期健康发展的角度考虑,准备向用户存储在以太坊网络上的数据进行收费,也就是除了交易确认费用之外的第二项费用。

  本文由区块律动 BlockBeats 翻译。

  V神发话以太坊要收费,网友回复:独裁币!

  在区块链的圈子里一直存在这样一个激烈的辩论,大家使用一个覆盖全球范围的分布式计算网络时是否应该付费,支付多少费用合适?近日,以太坊创始人 Vitalik Buterin(下称 V 神)在以太坊研究网站上提出了关于以太坊计算资源收费的简易方案,引发社区热议。

  在 V 神的那篇帖子中,他提出的是一个所谓的「租费(rent fee)」(下称收费)的概念。用户在使用以太坊区块链网络资源时,需要支付一定的费用,付费的多少取决于用户想让自己的数据在这个区块链上停留多久。

  之所以这个想法会引发讨论,原因是目前基于一台的 DAPP 普及速度不断提升,而以太坊网络的开发者们又疲于应对这种增长态势,与此同时以太坊区块链上各个节点存储的数据也在不断增加。

  简而言之就是一句话:如果越来越多的人无偿地去使用这个资源,那么这个网络会因为暴增的用户而变得不堪重负。越来越多的证据显示,大家担心的事情已经发生了。

  由于各种热门 DAPP 以及 ICO 的走红,以太坊的开发研究人员 Vlad Zamfir 和 Phil Daian 等知名程序员,都相信这个问题的解决刻不容缓。

  「没人喜欢谈收费,但是我们必须面对这件事。」以太坊的开发人员 Raul Johnson 最近发推文这么说道,他进而补充:「核心程序员需要尽快将这个消息散播出去,散播到智能合约的开发者社区以及其他地方,以求大家尽快达成共识。」

  那怎么收费?

  V 神的提议使得解决方案有了一个大概的轮廓。他的想法就是将费用计算方式建立「状态(State)」的长期使用限制上(注:State 是一小段特殊的以太坊数据,它能够跟踪目前各式各样应用的信息拥有者是谁,所以以太坊的计算节点运营者需要存储下来)

  在 V 神提出的这个方案下,数据是储存在计算机 RAM 中(现在大概是 5G),这一数字永远不允许超过 500 G 的。因为有这个上限的规定,用户需要为这部分数据在节点 RAM 里的储存进行付费。这样一来,存储的数据量就得到了控制,而另一方面,当储存空间越来越逼近极限的时候,费用还会不断攀升。

  V 神的这个方案之所以能引起如此大的轰动,就在于他将长期以来程序员想做而不敢做的事情提了出来,将这种变革可能提上桌面。

  最新的以太坊路线图显示,以太坊「分区验证」(sharding)距离真正部署还需要好几年时间,但「分区验证」的做法还是令人振奋。「分区验证」能够通过将数据碎片化,每个节点无须储存以太坊上所有的历史数据,只需要存储其中的一段即可,这样可以大大提升单个数据库能够处理的处理能力。

  V 神说道:「通过`分区验证`,以太坊能处理的最大数据量被提前碎片化了,被储存在不同的节点中,所以总的算下来,计算收费也能下降一定比例。」

  V 神同样还试图利用收费来解决传统互联网的另一个难题:糟糕的用户体验。现在绝大多数的数据收费方案都会需要用户自己去预测数据要存储多长时间,然后凭此进行付费。他提出的方案是:通过一种叫做「默克尔树(Merkle Tree Proof)」的算法,哪怕是数据存储到期了,用户还是可以逾期一段时间使用状态(State)。这样,对于用户来讲数据储存可以得到延续和保障。

V神发话以太坊要收费,网友回复:独裁币!

  深层次的问题:这算是区块链收税吗?

  最为深层次的问题是:在区块链上收使用费,跟向自由主义者收「税」一样,没人会喜欢。

  比特币社区里有关费用的讨论从来没有断过。大家不断的权衡利弊,如果费用提升,那么存储的数据也就越少,这使得各个节点都能从容地运行下去。当然坏的一面是,加密货币的使用成本就更高了。

  现在的一大悬念是:用户以及程序员群体对这项提议持怎样的看法。以太坊开发者 Johnson 就很担心:突然增加的费用会不会把那些已经将应用配置在以太坊的程序员给吓跑?同时他还认为:这样的变化不应该一蹴而就,而应该给一个过渡期,让程序员能够有时间来适应。

  当然,也有人认为同样的收费模式应该普及到所有的加密货币上面。这么看来,区块链网络「规模化扩张」的问题,以及其他相关费用,都是区块链圈子里面大家都共同面对的一个难题。

  在加密货币与合约组织(IC3)的智能合约研究人员 Daian 甚至提到比特币也应该采取相同的收费模式。他还认为,对存储资源进行合理的收费定价是目前区块链研究中至关重要的一个环节。为此,他跟其他机构的研究人员一同发起了 Project Chicago 项目来研究此议题。

  关于区块链资源使用收费这一全新研究领域,Daian 表示乐观,他总结道:「目前,还没有哪个加密货币在网络资源定价上面给出很好的模式。不过,以太坊的收费模式或许代表了区块链通向未来的正确方向。」

  原文下的网友回复

  none:现实推进会很慢,但是必须要这么做。要让大家都明白节点的运行需要简易、轻量化这个显而易见的事实。以太坊现在已经快要失控,底层网络上满是东西,毫不考虑未来扩容问题,虽然比比特币晚 6 年出现,区块大小已经超过比特币。比特币网络到目前为止还在持续运作,让人们在有限地资源条件下完整地验证交易,我们现在需要关注 Layer2 技术来极大地提高交易量。到目前为止还没有其他区块链能够超过比特币获得的成功和稳定性,其他代币要么在网络拥堵上栽了,要么在复杂性上栽了,要么在共识上栽了。都 10 年了,人们才意识到比特币才是最好的区块链!

  Alex Tracy:还有一个好的解决方案,等到 6 月 7 月,用 EOS。

  Dman:比特币才不用这种垃圾收费方式。

  Mario Skiba:以太坊变成更中心化的比特币了。Vitalik 总统现在要操纵以太币价格,以太坊网络收费。希望各位能明白他就是货币本身,独裁币!

  Reddit网友回复:

  tkosamja:wow,所以基本上是 Vitalik 想要用户付使用税。EOS 的设计领先它太多了!

  BarcaloungerJockey:所以以太坊想修改和分区区块链,如果你想要存数据,就要付费用。这不就是一个更慢的云计算吗?现在不仅要为智能合约和交易付费,还得为数据存储付费……

  gagatron:好了,以太坊正在转型成为云计算。

  JihanButt:太晚了,虚拟货币已经玩了,已经没人用以太坊网络了。大量的诈骗货币骗了价值几百万的以太币后抛售,以太坊价格肯定要跌到 2015 年的水平。

  其他媒体就此事的评论:

  CryptoComes 网站:其他区块链正在不断地降低费用,但是以太坊却在增加费用,V 神认为这有利于以太坊的长期健康发展。

V神发话以太坊要收费,网友回复:独裁币!

  以下为英文原文:

  作者:Alyssa Hertig

  Could adding a new fee help preserve ethereum in the long term?

  It's a contentious statement in light of the debates ongoing across blockchains over how and when users should pay to support what amount to global computing networks. However, the concept is now gaining notable momentum on ethereum, most recently from the creator of the world's second-largest blockchain himself, Vitalik Buterin.

  Buterin's concept, described in a recent blog post, revolves around so-called "rent fees," whereby users would be asked to pay to use the network based on how long they'd like their data to remain accessible on the blockchain.

  The idea has recently seen interest generally, as ethereum developers have sought to cope with the platform's increased adoption, and, in turn, the increased amount of data being added that all network nodes need to store.

  In short, it's a tragedy of the commons issue - if too many people use the resource for free, the network starts taking on the costs itself. And there's plenty of evidence to suggest that there is already reason to worry.

  With rising use spurred by popular apps and ICOs, notable developers, including ethereum researchers Vlad Zamfir and Phil Daian, believe the problem needs to be addressed now.

  "No one likes talking about rent, but we need to have this conversation," ethereum developer and Thiel fellow Raul Johnson recently tweeted.

  "Core developers need to relay this information to the smart contract developer community ASAP to get their opinions on the matter," he continued, adding:

  "The current system as it stands is unsustainable."

  Fees, explored

  Still, Buterin's backing could be a sign that momentum might build around the idea.

  So far, he has broached the idea with a pair of proposals on the subject, including a succinct possible solution he calls "a simple and principled way to compute rent fees." And Buterin's first proposal is as simple as its title suggests.

  The idea is to compute fees based on a long-term limit on the "state," a slice of special ethereum data that node operators need to store, which tracks who owns the current information about all apps (including user balances, who has posted so much data in, say, a Twitter replacement app and so on).

  Under the proposal, state data stored in a node computer's RAM - now about 5GB - will never be allowed to exceed 500 GB. To ensure this, users will have to pay fees based on how long their data is stored. In this way, data is kept in check, since fees will grow if storage creeps toward that limit.

  One notable part of Buterin's proposal is that he tries to incorporate a scaling change that ethereum developers have long wanted to add to the platform.

  Although the most recent roadmap claims deployment is still years away, "sharding," as it's known, could potentially boost the amount of resources a database can handle by splitting up the data. In ethereum, the idea is, each node wouldn't have to store all of ethereum's historical data - just a slice of it.

  "With sharding, the maximum acceptable state size would be per-shard, so the above fees would be decreased by a factor of 100," Buterin said.

  Buterin also tries to address another key problem with rent: its bad user-experience. Most rent proposals today would require users to know how long their data will need to live ahead of time, which would be prone to error.

  His second proposal explores a way of quashing this annoying guessing game by letting users use their state even after it has expired. Essentially, they would prove that their state existed at a previous point in time, with the help of a cryptographic technique called a "Merkle proof."

  Deep-rooted problem

  One problem with all this, though, is that fees, kind of like taxes, are never popular.

  Bitcoin's years-long debate, for example, mostly centered on fees and the trade-offs associated with them. If fees are increased, less data will be stored, making full nodes easier to run. The downside, of course, is it would make the cryptocurrency more expensive to use.

  One question is whether ethereum users and developers will react the same way, arguing "the rent is too damn high." In this way, Johnson worries that suddenly adding extra fees would alarm developers who have already deployed apps on ethereum.

  Johnson argues for changes that aren't so knee-jerk and should be phased in slowly to give developers time to adjust.

  Not to mention, some believe a similar rent needs to be applied to all cryptocurrencies. Indeed, scaling problems - and the associated fees - are a problem across blockchains.

  Daian went as far as to argue that bitcoin needs to apply the same model. Like ethereum, bitcoin currently doesn't charge for the lifetime of a coin.

  "Bitcoin is not free of these issues," he said, arguing that its simpler model incentivizes state bloat in a variety of ways, "exposing users to a variety of other consequences of mispriced storage."

  Pricing resources to the right degree is such an important area of research, that Daian, a smart contract researcher at IC3, and others at the institute have set up an initiative called Project Chicago dedicated to the effort.

  Even if this is a lesser-explored area and researchers haven't yet found a concrete solution, he's optimistic.

  Daian concluded:

  "No cryptocurrency has figured out good models for pricing these resources thus far, and ethereum's storage rent represents a step in the right direction towards these goals."

V神发话以太坊要收费,网友回复:独裁币!

V神发话以太坊要收费,网友回复:独裁币!

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作者:0x5
来源:区块律动BlockBeats

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